“What a nightmare, wise move getting dehumidifiers in at an early stage, this will help the clean up, clear the air and prevent mould, the best dehumidifier manufacturer is Meaco http://tinyurl.com/3bsk7gw I use them whenever I need a dehumidifier and recommend them to everyone I know.”

“"Yes I am aware of the water table which defines the true width of the river, this is surely the issue"
No the water table is the distance below ground level of groundwater - nowt to do with river level, or width
Still you are confusing the two
When I said twaddle I meant in reference to your reference of the pad being to allow the river to flood underneath The pad is to provide a large mass pushing downwards against the force of the groundwater pushing up
"As the water table rises surely the flood risk increases"
We are talking metres underground, yes true in so much as the ground becomes more saturated so surface water cannot percolate into the ground and therefore pools on the surface but water generally will not come bubbling up from the ground to cause flooding
"The water tble does go beyond the Eagle Centre basement car park and the flooding in 2000 was due to saturation of this water table rather than water flowing into the building from an over-flowing river."
For the sake of argument this is correct, of a fashion although much of the flooding would have been surface water that had nowhere else to go as the drains here overflowing and ground was saturated”

“Engineer, Thanks for an interesting debate/argument, there are less interesting ways to waste an afternoon! particularly when appointment has cancelled and you left at a loose end.
Ray you should join a debating group and express your opinion more often.”

“SOME PEOPLE WANT TO GET A LIFE”

“Engineer, so you agree that the old bus station was built on a concrete raft - or "buoyant foundation" as you inform us, so I was not talking "Twaddle" after all! Okay I accept that Aslin probably had nothing to do with the choice of foundations.
Yes I am aware of the water table which defines the true width of the river, this is surely the issue?

As the water table rises surely the flood risk increases?

The water tble does go beyond the Eagle Centre basement car park and the flooding in 2000 was due to saturation of this water table rather than water flowing into the building from an over-flowing river.

I understand that Markeaton, Bramble, Tennant, Wallbrook, brooks and a stream under Thorn Tree Lane all converge under the bus station. Surely a these would contribute ignificantly to the rise in the water table. The old Marks & Spencer's and HSBC Bank have water pumps in place to relieve the area of flood water. I remember a time when a culvert carrying a brook under a shop in Babington Lane ruptured and flooded the shop, thankfully the shop was under a refit at the time so heir were no serious fanancial losses.

Derby is built over underground waterways, so development must surely take this into account? Careless planning and lack of knowledge of the town's past can lead to all kinds of expensive mistakes.”

“Chris quote me a history lesson if you wish I already know about the history of the area and the various watercourses underneath the Cockpitt area (and Station Approach follows the route of the old canal - this was excavated when they built the Pride Park bridge) and I am not denying that the old station was built on a raft - this is known as a 'buoyant foundation'
and was quite common practise in 'Aslin's day' (Incidentally Aslin was an Architect not an Engineer - do not mix the two up!)
Modern technology means that the large rafts required are no longer economically (or environmentally due to huge volumes of concrete) viable as piling methods have become more advanced and cheaper, these are what the new station is built on and will in no way affect the water table or ground water flow any worse then the raft you mention.
What I am stating is that it is not flood (river) water that passes underneath the raft but natural ground water (due to the gravel beds you mention) that naturally flows through the ground and obviously will be higher during times of prolonged rain - this is known as the water table and it increases as the ground becomes saturated
You are mixing up the three - flood water, surface water (which is whhat you see on Morledge and is not affected at all by the bus station foundations) and ground water
The only way the new bus station creates any more of a flood risk than the old is because of increased surface water run off from the large tarmaced area, however as this was previously tarmac anyway (and drainage will no doubt have been improved as part of the new development) this is negliable if not less
If in your opinion the 'puddles' on the Moledge have got worse then this is nothing to do with the construction of the bus station but probably ties in with a decrease in spending on our road and drainage system, heavier road use and poor maintenance and cleaning of the gulleys”

“Engineer, I have taken the information about the "Concrete raft" from newspaper articles and documents I found at the the Local Studies Library whilst I was researching Derby's canal sysyems, these clearly quote the use of a concrete raft based on the natural gravel bed (Derby City Centre is built on silt/mud and gravel) in order to "reduce flood risk", this is also something I first learned a little about at school and took it to be "common knowledge" I also took a lot of photos of the concrete base as it was broken up, the whole site was laid on top of a huge concrete slab. People I know who were involved with developments at the time the Council House was built have also mentioned the large concrete base and why it was buiolt this way.

The City's main culvert runs under the bus station and this has been known to have exceeded its capacity on several occasions, unless they've moved it somehow?

When the Cockpitt car park was being built, the contractors had started drilling through the culvert and could have collaped it (Derek Palmer was Clerk of works for many years warned them that the red bricks they were digging up are part of the culvert, he often refers to this in his public talks).

Aslin was aware of the flood risks and took precautions. The bus station was built on the site of boat loading (cotton) warfs (as shown on many old maps, e.g. Speed's map). The river was navigable for several centuries, and much wider with its banks right up against the current site of the Noah's Ark pub, the land has since been reclaimed. Proof of the navigability of the river is shown by the large sailing ships in old paintings of Derby now part of the Goody Collection.

Morlege means Mare Leige - edge of the water (Lit: Sea).

The floods in 2000 were a very worrying time as the level rose 2cm every 15 minutes up until 4am, and the Rivers Authority were preparing for a disaster! It was a fluke that the rain stopped just in time. The EA have stated that several millions must be spent to replace the existing barriers.

Remains of a loading warf still exist on the Holmes,
The puddles on the Morledge have not been so prevelant until this development was started. I am sure that there are going to be a lot of problems with this ill-conceived development as time passes, so many people who have lived in Derby for so many years, and usually bemaoned for their criticism, will eventually be proved to have been right all along.”

“2 days 2 stories... a few more should make the public more sympathetic to the new opening date being September or something.

as for not getting bus fumes due to electric doors... haha. imagine this, like the old bus station, there will be lots of kids hanging around, many buses, many people... do you think that these doors will ever be shut other than really off-peak times? i wouldn't even be surprised if they operate an always open policy for at least 2 hours of any weekday.”

“Chris sorry to point out that from an Engineering and Construction point of view you are talking a load of complete twoddle about concrete pad foundations and water passing underneath, if that was the case for the amount of water you are talking (5 foot over such a large area as the entire Eagle Centre basement car park in 2000) the bus staion would have collapsed only months or years after being built
Did this water also decide to pass under the river gardens and the rest of the open space around the river to reach the underground car parks and basements of the buildings rather than spill over a flood defense barrier?
I think you are mixing up surface water run off and ground water flow with river levels
The new station is built on concrete piles and therefore efectively seperated from any groundwater flow, and water could still pass through the ground unhindered. It also as far as I am aware does not have any significant basement level

It is also common practise to locate essential services such as pumping, plant rooms, electricity distribution, air conditioning etc at roof level, not just to minimise risk of damage when flooding

Puddles on Morledge from rainfall - again not the river level then?
This is due to inadequate or poorly maintained surface water drains and not the area being a flood risk
You state levels where 4mm BELOW the flood barier - the important word there being in capitals. The barrier will be designed for at least a 150 year occurance
Yes its a flood risk area, hence the wall, which did its job.
Do you understand though how the EA actually derives its flood risk maps? It is actually very complicated and takes into account lots of factors, many of which have been questioned since their introduction by many professionals more highly qualified than you or me”

“Old moaner, the pumping facilities in the roof are for pumping water around he complex, they will undoubtedly have pumps in the basement as do the courts and the Concil House (where the basement floods on a regular basis). The Environment Agency (not me) have identified the area sa a "severe" flood risk zone, but then again you probably know more about the flood risks than they do.
The floods of 2000 is somethinhg I do have a great deal of insight into as I was given the task of taking data provided by the Environment Agency regarding the Derby Flood Barrier, the levels rose to within 4 centimetes of flooding the entire city centre (4 cm below the top of the flood barrier), the Eagle Centre basment flooded to a level of five feet. It has been proven time and again that developers do not listen to the EA which has resulted in thousands of homes, office complexes and other developments facing severe flood risk or in many cases have experienced severe flooding. When did a developer ever take heed of such warnings?”