Dream of £100m tram network may be derailed

“Willcroft3, just to remind you that the Runcorn Busway was originally designed to be a Light Rail scheme but the last minute it was decided to use buses instead as they are cheaper. The result is that the modal switch was never achieved because we Brits will not ride in buses in the same number as they do in Trams, 204 million last year. The council have a very short term view in investing in trams as these things are generational and will out live at least 5 generations of polluting buses
http 4 - Edinburgh problems are not the fault of the mode but the political shenanigans going on around the construction etc
Derby City Council are being advised by yesterday's bus experts who when they compile the BCR and numbers, failed to take into account that the Toton line is a statement for growth, inward investment and as trams are generational the numbers will exceed any that have been given now, just look at Croydon, Docklands, Manchester Metrolink and their neighbour Nottingham. The air quality, health benefits and mobility especially when the tram becomes a system as shown in a number of smaller cities around the world where municipal confidence and understanding are not limited.
We have a once in a lifetime opportunity here with the support of Norman Baker, Dft and LED to build this infrastructure so I call on Derby City Council to have a proper report done by people who really know about these things”

“I have read what other people have said and the fact is that it is unaffordable at the present, but the fact remains that the population of both cities are growing Fast.
When it was opened back in 1960 the A52 was adequate for the then traffic, but today it is over crowded and bit of a nightmare to travel along at anytime of the day, and with the new HS2 station due to open at Toton traffic on this route is set to increase.
At present most people have No alternative but to use the A52, so either we have more trains stopping at intermediate stations like Draycott or we have a tramway.

Or we build a New road to take some of the pressure off the A52, what ever we decide upon it is going to be unpopular with people who live along the route.
As Http_404 says it is going to be expensive, and the cost should be shared among the DCC the NCC both County Councils and Central Government.
The point that I am trying to make is that the A52 cannot take much more traffic.”

“The trams in nottingham have been a big success or so im told and nottinghams are expanding but nottingham is not derby and there area is much bigger and im glad our council are seeing sence and not going to wast money on this project - as yet anyway”

“To bring back the trams in derby would be good. the cost could be reduced if other matters were looked into.
how would one power the rail unit. what areas would benefit from the services.
The green energy applicant is the key. if the tram is on a electrified system then the cost of the energy has to be met. but to compensate the difference if the tram were to produce its own energy then the service would warrant the spend.
in my eyes if a wheel is turning and its cost money then i would look into to the turning factor of the wheel and how to make the wheel produce energy and become self reliant on itself.
This is why Britain is not going to go anywhere.
30% of the UK work force in the 1940s-50 early 60s was in manufacturing employing thousands of people in Factory's. the humble water wheel was the work horse then. using gears that turned other wheels to produce energy for lighting looms and so on.
The waterways are still there every city has a river that flow through. and its not being harness to bring clean energy home.”

“Derby was one of the first cities in the UK to get rid of it's trams, one of the reasons for this was that they ran on a nonstandard gauge and made it more expensive to replace cars, but Derby kept it's trolleybuses until around 1968 http://tinyurl.com/ce28qgp

Most UK towns & cities had got rid of their trams by the 1950s with the exception of Blackpool, these teams became a tourist attraction in their own right, I recommend that everyone visit the tramway museum at Crich to see how a tramway should be run.

Another way to manage passenger transport would be busways like we have in Runcorn, these could either be run using diesel or trolleybuses.”

“Tram too expensive to build and maintain. Too long to build.
Much better and cheaper would be guided buses with fast charging at each terminal.
Trams are old technology so yesterday.
However I am not convinced that a connection to Toton is needed.
B.Sc. (Hons) C.Eng. M.I.E.E.”

“Willcroft, look at Edinburgh as an example. One tram line between the city centre and the airport and it's costs have more than doubled and will forever be a financial burden on the population of the city. every tram system installed in modern times has over ran its cost estimates, and none have hit anywhere near projected passenger numbers
Here we have an estimate of £100m which is judged to be very conservative as it takes no account of ground conditions, landowners etc, and passenger projections which Mr Gibson himself admits are 'very low' and is also hlaf of what a similar system in Nottingham actually cost
For what 15-20km of tramway?, so £5-7m per km at least, probably double - £10-14million per kilometre
like I said, in which lifetime will that be economically viable?”

“One of the problems with the current bus system is that "all roads lead to town". If you want to get a bus from one area of Derby to another, you are probably going to have to get 2 buses, perhaps more. It's a right ball ache.”

“@Http_404
What do you mean a city the size of Derby?
When I was going to school; Spondon was outside the then Borough of Derby, with fields all around, Derby is today about the 16th largest city in England.

Who knows in years to come; Not in our lifetimes; Derby & Nottingham could become one huge mega city, and it will then need an integrated passenger transport system.”

“Willcroft, it will never become affordable, not for a city the size of Derby”