“Argentina has over the years had an appalling human rights record, it's own people have just disappeared.
The Falkland Islands are British and our future King is going out there to serve as a rescue pilot.
Many of my friends went down to liberate the islands and never came back, it would be an insult to their memory to let Argentina have ever these Islands.”

“I think, if Clegg was in power, he'd be handing it over on a silver platter.”

“Is this a forum question or an essay?”

“United Nations resolution 1514 recalled the right of all peoples to self-determination.

Would anyone care to advise Spain of this in repect of Gibraltar?”

“In answer to your question; never!”

“UK-Caribbean Forum recognises Right of Self Determination for Falkland Islanders

Of great significance to the Falkland Islands, the Forum agreed:
"To support the principle and the right to self determination for all peoples, including the Falkland Islanders, recognising the historical importance of self-determination in the political development of the Caribbean, and its core status as an internationally agreed principle under the United Nations Charter"

The Action Plan endorses the position of the Falkland Islands people, who have chosen to retain their status as a British Overseas Territory. The Argentine Government claim sovereignty of the Falkland Islands, and have adopted a policy of isolating the Falkland Islands from South America".

http://tinyurl.com/87sgog9”

“Homelands School

Falklands Hero Plaque

The interior of the school showing the plaque to Falklands War Hero, John Nowack, a pupil at the school between 1970 and 1975. Nowack was killed in action in the Falklands in 1982.

Marine Michael J Nowak P03609F

Friday 11th June 1982

RIP

http://tinyurl.com/6rmcsjq”

“The Falklands must remain a territory according to the wishes of it's people in accordance with the United Nations Charter to which Argentina is signed up thereby ending colonisation. The people have always maintained their British way of life is the way they wish to remain and this must be respected. It would seem that this matter has only been resurrected in Buenos Aires due to the recent discovery of oil in the region and it must be remembered that many British soldiers were killed in defence of the Islander's wishes in the early 1980s, together with many young Argentinians, and it is to their collective memory that this matter must be ended amicably and diplomatically. Nothing can be gained by another military confrontation which would be an insult to that memory.”

“I think the fact that 350m barrels of oil have been found under the Falklands might have prompted renewed interest from Argentina......

That the Falklanders which to remain British will become irrelevant if the Argentinian Government decide that having the oil is worth the risk of us sending another task force. And by task force, I am obviously referring to the three narrow boats and a rubber dingy, that our Navy now seems to consist of following the recent cuts.....”

“Who are you referring to P_Bear? I see none on here.”

“I believe we should hand over the islands like we did Hong Kong to the Chinese some years ago. Not immediately but at a set date some time in the future. Argentina are now a peaceful democracy and what with the discovery of oil in the region its now become an embarrassment.
If we insist on keeping the islands at least we could is share the wealth.”

“by Andrew_Ilson
"Who are you referring to P_Bear? I see none on here."




Right on time - Green Roads posts the usual wet leftie lunacy.

Tell us "Green_Roads" what is "embarassing" about discovering oil in British territory?
The only embarrasing thing I see is people like you who would no doubt have our troops paddling down there in canoes because its more "green" than flying, and who would give away OUR territory and insult the memories of those who died, and insult those of us who came back.”

“Green_Roads,
If you believe in giving oil rights away to other countries I presume you never complain when the cost of living goes up or at the reduction of welfare, education and health facilities due to loss of tax revenue?”

“What I don't understand is what is the point in being in NATO? Surely in last Falklands war we had they should have been right behind us? our territory was attacked and surely under the NATO charter an attack on one member is an attack on all of them?

Whats the point in having allies if they don't get behind you when you need them?

Surely if South America have a naval blockade of the the Falklands the EU should help us sanction them in return?”

“@ Green_Roads, your ignorance is astounding! Hong Kong (New Territories) was developed into a world trading and manufacturing base by the British under an agreement with the Chinese. Hong Kong was offered by China to the British on a 99 year lease set to expire in 1997, Britain handed Hong Kong back to China on the agreed date. This was a peaceful affair and we continue to trade with Hong Kong.

However, the Falklands were originally a desolate unoccupied group of islands, the only permanent settlement has ever been by British people who now wish to run their own islands with their own democratically elected government. Green_Roads should also be suggesting that Argentina should be handed back to the native Americans who lost their lands to the Spanish and Portuguese "Conquistadors" who killed off most of the Native population.
At least the Falklands were unoccupied when the British setted there.

As to defence, I agree that this is a difficult one as Britain is almost bankrupt and has a much limited defence capability. However with HMS Dauntless (Daring Class Destroyer) being deployed to the Falklands, would make an invasion of the islands almost impossible.
The Dauntless is a "stealth" enabled vessel which can hide from radar,it has a 200 mile range for its anti-aircraft capabilities and is equipped to take down he entire Argentine air force without even coming within 200 miles of an air craft.
HMS Dauntless to deploy to Falklands http://tinyurl.com/7wtu6kg

The ship has a full complement of Sea Viper Missiles which can can engage multiple targets simultaneously, meaning it is capable of defending the new Type 45 fleet and ships in their company against multiple attacks from the most sophisticated aircraft or missiles approaching from any direction and at supersonic speeds.
Sea Viper also has state-of-the-art Sampson radar, allowing it to react to high-speed, very low-level, anti-ship missiles and can track targets to a range of up to 400 kilometres. The Aster missiles are capable of speeds in excess of mach four and are highly agile.

Read more: http://tinyurl.com/6wvg6f2”

“Derby_born you're forgetting the nuclear capabilities of our submarines, we have a permanent presence in the South Atlantic.”

“Britain has always been at the forefront where war and aggression are concerned and always will be seen around the world as imperialist bully boys so why not just for once play the nice guys ?. A quote taken from the Guardian that you should all take heed of.

" Anyone who studies the tortuous history and law of the Falklands will know that Argentina's claim to the islands was certainly strong. The treaty of Utrecht recognised Spanish sovereignty and this led to 40 years of Spanish occupation of the islands, which was reasserted in 1823 by Buenos Aires after its independence
from Spain. Ten years later the islands were seized by force by Britain, and settlers sent out in a crude act of imperial aggression.".”

“@ p_bear we have often crossed swards on this site, but I must admire your patriotism, you may be a Tory but you are British right through.
Derby_borne you are very well read it's a pity you don't read the Guardian.

I was one of the many who where sent out to recapture the islands, back in 82 and many Spondon people envy me for the pension I now receive,
I sometimes wander if those same people would have still envied me back in 1982.
The Falkland islands were run by a Cromford company who sold the wool and took supplies out there,
in coal firing days the Royal Navy had a coaling station at Port Stanley. Then Stanley was about the same size as Borrowash. The Falklands island company had taken English people out there from Devonshire to look after the sheep. We shall find out more about the Falklands conflict in the summer when the 30 year state secretes are released.
Thatcher's government did not want to loose South Georgia for some, unknown reason.”

“Green Roads - "United Nations resolution 1514 recalled the right of all peoples to self-determination.

That is all.”

“m.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2010/feb/25/falklands-britains-expensive-nuisance?cat=commentisfree&type=article”

“m.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2010/feb/25/falklands-britains-expensive-nuisance?cat=commentisfree&type=article”

“p_bear I had not forgotten the Nuclear submarine capability, I just thought I'd mention the extra security offered against the Argentine aggression, by the deployment of HMS Dauntless.

Green_roads "Anyone who studies the tortuous history and law of the Falklands will know that Argentina's claim to the islands was certainly strong". You are trying to mislead us as the facts show a different story:


1713 Intense trade rivalry between Spain, Britain and France leads to Treaty of Utrecht which confirms Spain's control of South American territories (this is Spain, NOT Argentina! Which did not exist at the time)

1769 English and Spanish ships meet while surveying the Islands and exchange letters each accusing the other of being in the Islands unlawfully

1770 5 Spanish ships with 1,400 men commanded by General Madariaga force surrender of British naval vessel Favourite and British withdrawal from Port Egmont

1771 A joint declaration is negotiated between the British and Spanish Governments to avert war, and the Spanish make restitution for confiscated goods to the British who re-occupy Port Egmont.”

“Green Roads, thanks for the link to an "OPINION" published in the Guardian, this is not factual and ignores the right of a small country to self govern, and flies in the face of UN resolution 1514. It is utter nonsense!

The Falkland Islands are now a highly successful self governing community and one of the most productive British dependencies.

Here is a video showing some interesting Facts http://tinyurl.com/85wflbg

Also news from the Falklands: "Falkland Islands Government response to Mercosur shipping ban announcement:

'The people of the Falkland Islands deeply regret the decision by Mercosur to ban our legitimately flagged vessels from entering their ports, though we can sympathise with our friends in South America as to the bullying tactics employed by Argentina. We are resourceful people, and we will not bow to Argentina in their attempts to undermine our home and way of life.

'We welcome reports that President Mujica has said Uruguay will not participate in an economic blockade of the Falkland Islands. We would remind the countries of South America of the long and mutually beneficial trade relationship we share with countries in the region, and encourage them to respect us as the valuable and reliable regional partner we have strived to be.'
http://tinyurl.com/86rpbgf”

“I have come to the conclusion the Green_Roads either likes to antagonise people for his own warped amusement or really hates Britain, I sat with my daughter's Godmother on the day her son left the house saying when Hermes goes out I will be on her. His friend returned minus his legs blown off at the knees and he returned forever changed after sitting with him as his friend was screaming my legs, my legs. He told him it's okay mate I can see them, to keep him calm while they waited for the medics. He was never the same happy go lucky lad he had been when he signed up only 3 years earlier. So if it's all the same to you Green_Roads the Falklands are British, with British people living there who want to remain British, they don't want it handing over to Argentina.”

“@WillCroft3, The video I have linked to tells of how the businesses were run by landlords from over seas, and how much things have changed since the war with Argentina.

On the Guardian, their writers offer many varying opinions, the link provided by Green_Roads is to an opinion by one of the Guardian's many Opinion Column writers and supports the Argentine claim of sovereignty over the British inhabitants of the Falkland Islands, and disagrees with self determination, the UN resolution 1514 and the democratic right of the Island's inhabitants to govern themselves.

The argument of oil reserves is bound to come up, however this oil would belong to the Falkland Islanders, as explained in the video, it will boost their economy now that the wool trade has become depleted. It will also enable them to pay for the defences that are required to keep the Argentines from invading.

The Falkland Islanders are very "green" minded and have stated that they will maintain the natural surroundings and environment by drilling for oil in a way that respects the environment (see video).
The Argentine Government is keen to get its hands on the oil, but how would they go about it? They have so far proved to be somewhat irresponsible when it comes to the environment, look at their record on Rain Forest destruction.”

“Just doing what we are doing discussing things in Argentina would have been enough to have us thrown into prison back in the 80s & 90s maybe never to be seen again.
Who knows maybe next year that fascist government may be in power in Argentina again. I have learned from experience that you cannot give in to people like them, you must fight them as soon as you can before the become too strong.”

“@WillCroft3, I believe you are right on the button with that point. Argentina must never be allowed to take control of the Falklands. The inhabitants are British because that is how they see themselves, and they are Falklanders because the Falklands have been their home for many generations and hey have a right to live as they wish, in a free democratic country.”

“On a lighter note I enjoyed Derby_born's video on how the Falklands are today,
how I remembered them is on my earlier post.
It was an innocent way of life back then No TV just radio No Drugs Pubs closing at 9-30 and No crime No unemployment & No crowds. Today they have satellite TV and are doing well.
OKAY Green_Roads if Britain pulls out of the islands who will tend the war graves? Not Argentina or any other south American country they are too busy offering santury to Nazis & train robbers.”

“I hope now that the United Nations upholds the Falkland Islands' right to self determination and that Argentina's latest rant is forgotten. It is time for the bullying of a small group of islands by a jingoistic nationalist state such as Argentina is stopped for good! It is good to see that Argentina has far less support for their claim now that the islanders have International support for their desire to run their own affairs without interference from other countries.

On the subject of Prince William going to the Falklands, he is serving as an Air Sea Rescue pilot, this is a part of his duty to serve in the forces, he is not going as a Royal but as a helicopter pilot.

It is really laughable that the Argentine government accuse him of going dressed in the uniform of a Conquistador, a Spanish invader! It was the Spanish who committed genocide against the native population of South America, it is they who are the invaders and under their own claims about the Falklands, should now hand back the country to the native Americans who's land they have stolen.

The Falkland Islanders are British, they have lived on the islands for generations going back over 180 years, no one has the right to take control of their home country and govern them without their consent. The islands have their own government which has no political parties, it is made up of fairly elected representatives of the people. The Islands are best known for their wool production but the discovery of oil will make them very wealthy as the oil is theirs for the taking - see the video as all is explained.

Finally I would like to thank Willcroft for his contribution to this debate as he was there in 1982, he lost friends and colleagues during the conflict so deserves respect for the part he played. I am pleased that you enjoyed the video Willcroft, I hope this makes the effort and sacrifice you and your friends and colleagues made, worthwhile. I live in the hope that the people of the Falklands keep their right to rule themselves and we can sweep this Argentine bullying episode into the sea and forget it ever happened.”

“Assuming they are going to keep all this new found disputed oil I hope they are going to pay for all the protection they have received for the last 30 year's ?.”

“To Green_roads very amusing here is one for you, during the first Gulf War it was said that Kuwait had half of the world's oil & Ronald Reagan had the other half on his hair.

To Derby_born thank you for bringing up the bit of how the Spanish had treated the Native American people.
I need to learn how to put the video links up like you do. There is one that may interest you it shows how badly the Argentines treated the Islanders, it's on You tub it's called the Falklands war the Islanders story, have a look at sea of fire. Our family have always stuck up for the under dog that's why we are socialists Me & My Brother he is a Doctor a GP.”

“@Green_Roads, there you go again! If you had actually bothered to watch the video you would have known that the Falkland Islanders will be using some of the revenue to pay for the upkeep of a British forces presence in the Falklands. Also that the money will fund the environmental (green) projects that are being set up to protect the area. Unlike your friends in Argentina who want to pillage the resources without regard to the environment.”

“@Willcroft, I found the video that you mention http://tinyurl.com/7smseva

It is on YouTube and the bit I find most horrifying is that the Argentine Commander said that if they killed all the inhabitants there would be no population to stop them from owning the islands.
The Argentine army is described as being like a Nazi army and genocide was certainly considered at the time of the invasion!
Interesting to see how one of the comments by an Argentine viewer tries to deny that this happened!”

“Here is another video, The Falklands War, A Soldier's Story: http://tinyurl.com/74ozdgq
In 1982 the Falklands had a small British Garrison and a population of 1820 people. To conquer them, the Argentine Fascist government sent an armed force of 10,000 troops!
The video "A Soldier's Story" was from a documentary made 25 years after the conflict.”

“Just a little off topic, but looking at the Argentine record of environmental issues, I would be very concerned if they were allowed to pillage the resources of the Falklands.

"The deforestation rate of the Chaco forest of northern Argentina, is up to six times higher than the world average.
The rate of this destruction has accelerated since 1996, when Monsanto introduced genetically engineered soya beans into Argentina. Since then, the country has extended its agricultural frontiers to grow genetically engineered soya for export as animal feed, at the expense of its threatened forests, wildlife and the homes and livelihoods of many people."
http://tinyurl.com/7qjxpkb”

“by Green_Roads
"Assuming they are going to keep all this new found disputed oil I hope they are going to pay for all the protection they have received for the last 30 year's ?."



Maybe YOU should be made to pay for the protection you have received from an army that you clearly dont support in a country that you clearly dont support.”

“I already begrudge paying taxes towards our Arab country raiding mercenaries so why would I want to pay more blood money ?”

“Apparently to hold a a different opinion to the majority makes you a traitor, no l et's make that a TRAITOR, but surely that's what freedom is all about? If you really believe that P Bear, you're a clown.”

“Most of the comments on this forum have nothing to do with original question.
For many years, these islands have enjoyed British Sovereignty, so anyone that questions this is way of course. The sacrifices made in 1982 cannot be forgotten, so any suggestion of traitors, non-belivers or whatever are complete nonsense.
The Falkland Islands are UK territory - full stop. The political issues that occur are occurring in Argentina have nothing to do with the government of the Falkland Islands other than the fact this UK Government has at last seen sense to deploy a couple of area defence ships to the area. Good effort!”

“Just because they want it don't mean they are going to get it.”

“The fact is that the Falkland Islands are inhabited by ritish people who have lived there for generations, they have a right to run the islands as they wish. No one should ever be allowed to take away their rights, culture and way of life.
Some seem to forget that it is the Argentines who invaded the islands with 10,000 armed troops and imposed military rule over 1800 unarmed British inhabitants of this island.
Green_Roads is so far out with hiss or her comments as he/she has no understanding of democratic processes, whilst offering sympathy and support to a fascist regime and now is all in favour of using the war grave sites for "growing something useful"?
I also note that Rob09 and Andrew Illson make totally irrelevant comments here, sitting on the fence! I would like to know if they would agree to Argentina being allowed to take way the rights of the Falkland islanders and impose their culture, laws and politics on n independent state.
Given the Argentine record of human rights abuse and their appalling environmental record, they should never be allowed to have any say in the future of the islands.”

“Thanks for the history lesson Green_Roads. The Treaty of Utrecht also provided for Britain's occupation of Gibraltar and other imperialist gains. I presume you support those clauses as legitimate as well? As for Argentina gaining its independence from Spain, no South American country would have gained its independence from Spain or Portugal so easily without the help of the British, nor would slavery have finished so early there without our intervention, nor would railways and other economic benefits have developed there so early. Guardianistas who continually **** off the British as neo-imperialist aggressors should try judging events according to the values of the day rather than those of the cosy armchair morality of lefty keyboard warriors today. Show me another group of people with a better track record on the imperialist front. Perhaps the Conquistadors?”

“The censored word above is 'sl@g' off.”

“Excuse typos, "British people" sticky keyboard!”

“Judging by the abuse and personal insults by p_bear I have come to the conclusion there is no point in debating this hot potato. Having a different opinion and being able to speak freely is not allowed by p_bear and his frequent bans just go to prove how ruthlessly he enforces this. I shan't say another word.”

“by Green_Roads

Sunday, February 05 2012, 10:42AM

" I shan't say another word."

Hopefully on any subject ever again”

“P_bear is probably a loon on benefits here in the UK.
Anyway, for once David Cameron has made a good decision to send a decent siazed warship and a submarine down there to keep the peace and protect the UK's interests and it's dependants!”

“Green_Roads is that a promise? Hopefully we won't see your name on the comments or forums ever again.”

“by Green_Roads
"Judging by the abuse and personal insults by p_bear I have come to the conclusion there is no point in debating this hot potato. Having a different opinion and being able to speak freely is not allowed by p_bear and his frequent bans just go to prove how ruthlessly he enforces this. I shan't say another word."



AS EVERYONE CAN SEE - THE "ABUSE" NOT6 ONLY OF ME BUT OF EVERY SOLDIER WHO HAS FOUGHT FOR THIS COUNTRY, AND OF OUR DEAD, CAME FROM YOU.

YOU REALLY ARE A TRAITOROUS IGNORANT WASTE OF SPACE.”

“by asctty
"P_bear is probably a loon on benefits here in the UK."

No - I'm one of the silly people that pays a lot of tax to keep the likes of you in benefits.”

“Nothing wrong with being on benefits. Are benefit claimants scum too p_bear ?”

“I am sorry I have missed all the fun,
this site has been busy. I didn't get up until late the I went along to the Carvery for my lunch.
I was out most of last night doing voluntary work because of the bad weather.

Now Green_Roads I see that you have been enjoying yourself, I read what you had to say with great interest.
Just one question if I may.

Would you have given Malta to the Germans? just because they wanted it.”

“by Green_Roads
"Nothing wrong with being on benefits"


There is EVERYTHING wrong with being on benefits.

Hard working people pay taxes to make benefits available for those who cant work through illness or old age, and as a temporary safety net for those between jobs.

Benefits were never intended to provide a free ride to those who breed irresponsibly or to those who are just too idle to get off their backsides - like so many of the long haired eco=loon members of rent a mob that we see at whatever "protest" happens to be going on.

So far you have supported benefit scroungers, advocated desecrating war graves, advocated abandoning British subjects to a facist regime, and insulted every service man and woman in Britain past & present.

Anyone else you'd like to insult?”

“Evening all...

Well the weathers nice in the Caribbean this time of year (that's just of the coast of Florida,U.S.A asccy) any body need a pair of Bermuda shorts or a Hawaiian shirt let know..

Cuz every girl crazy about a sharp dressed O.M.R.L.P man...

Lord Whopping Foghole... Truth,justice and the O.M.R.L.P way..”

“I didn't think it would take p_bear long to brand all benefit claimants as scroungers. Let's hope you don't have to make a claim one day. We have a welfare system to be proud of and long may it continue. Back to the paramilitary forces that so called protect this country my grandfather was imprisoned along with Jack Straws father for doing the honourable thing and refusing to fight. Not in his name he said and the Falklands was not in my name nor was Iraq, Afghanistan and Iran in the next few months.”

“by Green_Roads

Sunday, February 05 2012, 10:42AM

" I shan't say another word."

Green_Roads branded a liar by Green_Roads”

“Derby_born, to respond to your comments (some time back!), I'm quite happy to assure you that I don't agree with Argentina's claim on the Falklands. I believe in the right of self determination for all peoples, whether Falkland Islanders, Scots or anyone else. The point I was making was that Green_Roads is quite entitled to air his views, without being called a traitor or a coward by people who don't seem to have grasped the concept of freedom yet.”

“I thought Green_Roads wasn't going to say another word? I was so hoping that would be the case. Pity they can't read my lips right now, because the second word is off.”

“by Rob09
Green_Roads is quite entitled to air his views, without being called a traitor or a coward by people who don't seem to have grasped the concept of freedom yet."


Oh, so you think there is a right to enjoy freedom that was won by the sacrifice of others, whilst abusing the very people who won that freedom?
You are a typical left wing hypocrite.”

“More abuse from p_bear to yet another poster whom does not say what p_bear thinks.

P_bear your politics and way of thinking is so 1970's. We have moved on since those Racist, chauvinist, xenophobic, war mongering times. We are now a wonderful multicultural society where rich and poor eat well. You think the unfortunate unemployed should be starved, not be allowed to have children and thrown in workhouses.”

“by Green_Roads
P_bear your politics and way of thinking is so 1970's. We have moved on since those Racist, chauvinist, xenophobic, war mongering times. We are now a wonderful multicultural society where rich and poor eat well. You think the unfortunate unemployed should be starved, not be allowed to have children and thrown in workhouses."



In another thread your ansewer to people dying from the cold was to push up fuel prices to "combat global warming". What a plonker you are.

NOw exactly where did I say the unemployed should starve? I said VERY CLEARLY that the unemployed should have the safety net to support them back into work. My objection is to low lifes who fornicate and breed just to get more benefits, and who are too idle to take work.

I just KNEW that sooner or later the old loony left standby would rear its head - the "racism" card. Now show us all exactly where I have made a racist remark. You cant - but your use of the accusation shows your desparation.

As for this wonderful liebore multicultural society yopu spout asbout - would that be the multicultural bit that was recently convicted of trying to blow up parts of London? Or would it be the multicultural bit reported in today press as plotting to kill the queen and disrupt the olympics with bombs ?

And this wonderful utopia you describe "where rich and poor eat well". Would that include the pensioners struggling to survive on a pittance and having to chose been warmth or food? Why are they so poorly cared for - because idlers, low lifes, and scroungers, that YOU support (including your long haired professinal "demonstrators") are taking so much in undeserved benefits that there isnt enough left to pay a decent pension - thats why.

I do hope that you have the courage to tell the troops retrning from Afghanistan that in your opinion they are "racist, chauvinist, xenophobic, war mongerers". I wonder how much practice your doctor has at removing bayonets from human orifices?

Really Green_Roads you have shown yourself and the rest of your eco-loon left wing rabble up for what you really are. Anti-British cowardly scrounging idiots.”

“So let's get this straight p_bear, if you care about our environment and wanting to preserve the planet for future generations that makes you a eco-loon
left wing rabble Anti-British cowardly scrounging
idiot ?. I can just picture you now typing up an email foaming at the mouth to Littlejohn from the Daily mail ( mein kampf ).

The condem party certainly got one thing right with the savage cuts, and that's to vastly reduce money going to bully boys in uniform pretending to be soldiers.”

“Hey P_Bear,

Have you seen this Canadian study?

'Are racists dumb? Do conservatives tend to be less intelligent than liberals? A provocative new study from Brock University in Ontario suggests the answer to both questions may be a qualified yes.

The study, published in Psychological Science, showed that people who score low on I.Q. tests in childhood are more likely to develop prejudiced beliefs and socially conservative politics in adulthood.

I.Q., or intelligence quotient, is a score determined by standardized tests, but whether the tests truly reveal intelligence remains a topic of hot debate among psychologists.

Dr. Gordon Hodson, a professor of psychology at the university and the study's lead author, said the finding represented evidence of a vicious cycle: People of low intelligence gravitate toward socially conservative ideologies, which stress resistance to change and, in turn, prejudice, he told LiveScience.

Why might less intelligent people be drawn to conservative ideologies? Because such ideologies feature "structure and order" that make it easier to comprehend a complicated world, Dodson said. "Unfortunately, many of these features can also contribute to prejudice," he added.

Dr. Brian Nosek, a University of Virginia psychologist, echoed those sentiments.

"Reality is complicated and messy," he told The Huffington Post in an email. "Ideologies get rid of the messiness and impose a simpler solution. So, it may not be surprising that people with less cognitive capacity will be attracted to simplifying ideologies."

But Nosek said less intelligent types might be attracted to liberal "simplifying ideologies" as well as conservative ones. '”

“Rob09 - I'm aware of the s9 called "study". If you had the intelligence to dig a little deeper you would discover that this "study" was written by a LEFT WING PRESSURE GROUP. Dr. Gordon Hodson, is an active campaigner for socilism, and Dr. Brian Nosek would of course back such a report, after all he was an active member of the communist party.

However, if as you claim, being stupid makes people right wing, I can only conclude that your politics must be somewhere to the right of Attila the Hun.”

“by Green_Roads

Sunday, February 05 2012, 8:32PM
.
"So let's get this straight p_bear, if you care about our environment and wanting to preserve the planet for future generations that makes you a eco-loon
left wing rabble Anti-British cowardly scrounging
idiot ?. I can just picture you now typing up an email foaming at the mouth to Littlejohn from the Daily mail ( mein kampf ).

The condem party certainly got one thing right with the savage cuts, and that's to vastly reduce money going to bully boys in uniform pretending to be soldiers."



In typical leftie fasion you attempt, rather pathetically, to misquote everything others say.
So, in the interests of clarritry let's summarise what you have said today shall we.

You have said that you APPROVE OF BENEFIT SCROUNGERS.

That you BELIEVE IN DESECRATING WAR GRAVES.

That you would ABANDON BRITISH SUBJECTS TO AN INVADING FACIST REGIME,

That you would further increase fuel costs EVEN IF OLD PEOPLE DIED,

That you are a COWARD who would REFUSE TO FIGHT FOR YOUR COUNTRY, but would be quite happy to let others do it for you.

That you believe in fre speech, so long as someone else DIES PROTECTING THAT FREEDOM FOR YOU.

That our servicemen & women are "Arab country raiding mercenaries " and "bully boys in uniform pretending to be soldiers."

In short Green_Roads you have demonstrated that you hate this country and all it stands for, you hate its pat, you hate its present and its future, and you hate its strength and ideology.
Tell us - why the hell do you stay here? Oh, silly me, of course, YOU DONT HATE OUR BENEFITS SYSTEM.

You, and your loony left friends, really are the lowest form of life, blood sucking scroungers. Not only do you suck our benefits system dry, stealing from pensioners and the sick by doing so, but you also steal from the nation by accepting our protection whilst refusing to support those protecting you. Like all socialists, you are a nasty stupid hypocritical fool with an over inflated opinion of yourself.

Frankly I've wiped better than you off my boots.”

“It's quite strange, all and I mean all of the people I've ever spoken to who fought in the Falklands, including close family, accepted that the Argentinian infantry there were poorly trained kids who didn't want to be there and felt almost sorry for them. Certainly they don't hate them or consider them cowards.

I wonder if the walt hunters at A**** want to take a look at this thread?”

“Stupid profanity filter blocked out British Army Rumour Service (http://tinyurl.com/2ctnqt)”

“Hotlush please dont show your ignorance. Some were poorly trained conscripts, but some were not. And do you think the carnage on the Sir Galahad was caused by a "poorly trained conscript" ?

Maybe you think a bullet fired by a poorly trained conscript doesnt kill? Or a mine laid by one only goes "bang" without hurting you?

Stilol, its nice to know that the bast**d who killed my godson was just a poor conscript. Hell of a lucky shot wasnt it. I never knew they gave sniper rifles to "poorly trained conscripts".

You really are an ignorant fool.”

“Hotlush - I'm quite happy to provide my details - your insinuation merely shows you up as yet another nasty little leftie with your infantile anti everything British agenda.”

“Isn't it noticable how all the antoi-British lefties crawl out from under their rocks to post their scurrilous comments. They really do behave like a pack of Hyenas. Protecting one of their own even when that person has advocated desecrating war graves.

You have to wonder how a bunch of "badly trained kids who didnt want to be there" managed to kill about 250 highly trained professional servicemen dont you.

The fact is Hotlush you know no one in the forces, and if you do, they would want nothing to do with someone with your attitude.”

“'And do you think the carnage on the Sir Galahad was caused by a "poorly trained conscript" ? '

I would like to step in here.

The bombing of the Sir Galahad was undertaken by the Argentinian Air Force. That same Airforce, used to have the Meteor as one of its aircraft. Yes the same Meteor built in Cheltenham, designed by Sir Frank Whittle.

That Argentina became the first South American country to have a jet propelled fighter was down to the country that sold it too them. Great Britain. From those early sales, they reverse engineered these jets and built their own.

It could have been one of their own designed jets that attacked the Sir Galahad, but it wasn't. They tried to develop jets themselves, but reverted to buying them in.....It was an American built jet from McDonnell Douglas, (now Boeing,) that fired the American Mark 81 Bomb that killed our soldiers.

The truth is much more difficult to swallow sometimes. Especially when those that need to hear it are so bigoted.”

“And P_Bear yet again shows that he is incapable of understanding that you can love, and work to defend this country, without agreeing that everything it does is perfect.

Some of us don't feel the need to remind everyone every other post about our contribution, because we don't have massive egos that need stroking.
I question your claim about the Falklands as whenever you've claimed something before there's always something off; e.g. you're an advanced driver who believes the AIM instructors won't pick you up for being slightly over the limit even though their whole being is in making progress safely not quickly, and excess speed is an automatic failure.

As to not knowing anyone in the Forces; 9/12th, Paras, RAF Regiment, Lancs, RMP, RM Commando just in my close family.”

“by Hotlush
"Some of us don't feel the need to remind everyone every other post about our contribution, because we don't have massive egos that need stroking."

Again you attempt to insult by misrepresenting facts. What I find anoying is the pontification by idiots who were not there, whjo know nothing about it other than the garbled drivel printed by newspapers, and who advocate desecrating war graves. Clowns who brand our troops murderers and mecenaries, and who therefore obviously support the poppy burning hecklers and low lifes that have been allowed to infect our country.

You yourself implied that the Argentinian troops were merely poorly trained conscripts - which is totally untrue. The Agentinians had their "elite" Commado's there (hardly untrained conscripts), they had artillery units there - again hardly untrained conscripts, indeed you dont send conscripts out laying land mines - yet they managed to lay 10's of thousands of them.

It seems that you are in fact attempting to denegrate what our troops achieved by your comments, which are almost as offensive as those by green_roads.






_________________________________________________________

" e.g. you're an advanced driver who believes the AIM instructors won't pick you up for being slightly over the limit even though their whole being is in making progress safely not quickly, and excess speed is an automatic failure."

Totally off topic but I will respond - the point I made is correct - the reason being that speedometers are never accurate, they all overread, and the law has to allow a 10% margin for this fact - otherwise every motorist caught speeding would have a claim against the car manufacturer.
Incidently your asumption of the aims of the IAM is incorrect. They teach how to make progress quickly whilst remaining safe - which is totally different to your assertion.”

“To Green_Roads & Hot-flush,

May I remind you that the Argentines sank HMS Sheffield HMS Coventry and The Atlantic Conveyor, to name but a few of our ships. Causing the Death & horrific injuries to our servicemen & merchant seaman.
If the enemy uses untrained service personnel to fight British forces it is them the enemy not Great Britten who are responsible for the death of these combatants.

The enemy had advantages over the British in 1982 in that it was only a few hundred miles from it's home land and supply bases.
The only people who would help us was the United States, with their base in Accentuation Island.
It is people like you two who dragged the conflict on & on in Northern Ireland, causing many deaths, by making our solders do their job with one hand tied behind their backs.
HAVING TO SHOUT A VERBAL WARNING THEN TO FIRE A WARNING SHOT. Whilst the terrorists just shot to kill, thank God we didn't have to play them games in the South Atlantic or Iraq.”

“I made no comment, disparaging or otherwise, on the British troops (***, who can't spell Great Britain) serving in the falklands.
My point is those who I know did serve there don't hate the Argentinians, they see them as soldiers, just like them, doing the donkey work.

As to the comment about NI, my uncle did seven tours in NI and saw his best friend killed so don't lecture me about NI. His name is on the wall at the National Arboretum and I was honoured to be invited there for its unveiling.”

“"the reason being that speedometers are never accurate, they all overread,"
Yes, so if you're doing an indicated 33 you could be doing between 30 and 33, and speeding is an absolute offence.
My car for example is accurate up to ~55mph and overreads by 3mph @ 70.

"the law has to allow a 10% margin for this fact - otherwise every motorist caught speeding would have a claim against the car manufacturer."

Still waiting for you to point us at that legislation or case-law; ACPO guidance is not law.
I'm not holding my breath because it doesn't exist.
If your speedo says you're driving at 33mph odds are you're driving at 33mph, and you will fail the IAM test for driving in excess of the posted limit.”

“Now we know how WEAK the argument of the loony left is - they have been busy filing spurious "reports" again. HOW PATHETIC.

@ Hotlush - "those who I know did serve there don't hate the Argentinians," - they probably didnt see what we saw. Were they on the Sir Galahad when the cowardly attack took place losing 32 comrades, most of them burnt to death? Did they speak to islanders who had been abused by these animals including to my knowledge one who was raped by these so called "soldiers"? Thought not.”

“P__bear
Ignore them they are not worthy of response
This "debate" is going nowhere but further and further off track and further coment is pointless do not let them lure you in like this, let the posts stand as evidence of the other contributors disrespect and cowardise but do not grace them with a response they do not deserve”

“For those that wish to keep the debate on track, lets try and take away the emotion from it.The attack on the Sir Galahad, whilst devastating, was anything but cowardly. In the first place, we were at war with Argentina and as such, this was an act of war against our forces.

By the time of the attack, British forces had inflicted massive strategic damage to the Argentinian military capability. The only remotely capable airfield for military use was put out of action and we had shot down numerous aircraft, including one of their Mirage fighters, which was considered a better aircraft than our Harriers. We had taken the island of South Georgia without firing a shot and we had sunk the General Belgrano.

Add to that the disabling of one of their submarines and you have this to consider.

Whether you were in their Airforce, Navy or Army, your opponent had demonstrated that they were clearly superior to you as they had travelling around 6000 miles in order to kill your comrades and disable your strategic capability.

From a military perspective, this is very impressive. Even for the highly trained members of the surviving Argentinian armed forces, it was a moral sapping experience. For the conscripts, knowing that a smaller invading force was probably going to be how your young life was about to end, it was terrifying.

When the SIr Galahad was attacked, the aircraft which did so, was flown from the Argentinian mainland. Its pilot, knowing that he was facing a far superior enemy, could have been forgiven for thinking that he was not going to make it back. I think that constitutes a level of bravery that not many of us hold.

To continue the bravery theme and for balance, our armed forces, knowing that they were hideously outnumbered, showed immense courage to undertake operations, some of them after having marched through the night in horrific terrain.

We were able to regain the Falklands because we demonstrated an ability to execute a lethal military strategy. I am pretty sure that with the advances in weaponry since then, we continue to hold a powerful deterrent to Argentina, despite the massive cuts in the armed forces budget.

However, this needs to be put to one side as it is the right to self determination of the Falklanders themselves, coupled with the fact our armed forces will fight for the democratic right of civilians, which is the important issue. If the Falklanders want to remain British then so be it.

The oil issue however, is disconcerting as with 350m barrels sitting their, it is an amount too significant to ignore. How would we know if a future war was about the right to self determination, rather than another conflict for the acquisition of oil assets?”

“by Objectionist
"For those that wish to keep the debate on track, lets try and take away the emotion from it.The attack on the Sir Galahad, whilst devastating, was anything but cowardly. In the first place, we were at war with Argentina and as such, this was an act of war against our forces.
When the SIr Galahad was attacked, the aircraft which did so, was flown from the Argentinian mainland. Its pilot, knowing that he was facing a far superior enemy, could have been forgiven for thinking that he was not going to make it back. I think that constitutes a level of bravery that not many of us hold."




Simply not true. They had superior numbers, superior aircraft, and a virtually unlimited supply of Exocet missiles. Far from "thinking he was facing a superior enemy" the Argentinian pilots thought they were off to shoot fish in a barrel.

They avoided confrontation and instead carried out a murderous sneak attack on a target which they knew was virtually undefended. 50 men, 35 from my regiment, were murdered by this sneak attack.

Similarly the extensive totally indescriminate use of land mines was the act of cowards, not soldiers. 30 year later vast swathes of the islands are still unsafe thanks to these cowardly actions.”

“P_Bear_ (another incarnation?)
"50 men, 35 from my regiment, were murdered by this sneak attack. "

Only 48 people died on the Galahad, and of them only 32 where Welsh Guards”

“according to wikipedia anyway! http://tinyurl.com/76ybrg8”

“The mention of Argentine troops being "poorly trained conscripts" makes no difference to the fact that this was a hostile invasion, they did not drop in for tea and biscuits! Let us not forget that over 10,000 armed Argentine troops landed on the Falklands to fight against a small British garrison that was not equipped for a full scale war. The garrison was there to protect 1800 civilians, mainly sheep farmers! They stood no chance against more than 10,000 armed invaders.

Willcroft mentioned a video showing the Islanders' story, here is a link to the video which is part of an international award winning documentary on the Falklands War: Falklands The Islanders' Story http://tinyurl.com/7smseva (an Argentine officer is reported to have said that "The best solution would be kill all the Falkland Islanders, then there'd be no population to worry about".

The Argentine army had plenty of warning about a British task force that was being sent 7,000 miles to evict them from the Islands, and they were repeatedly asked to leave. The Fascist Junta who commanded the invading army refused to leave and ordered their troops to remain and fight.

The Sir Galahad and HMS Sheffield were attacked with Exocet missiles sold to the Argentines by the FRENCH, prior to the Falklands war. The Argentine pilots were trained by the French: http://tinyurl.com/yzwkv9p

p_bear, as has been said by others on this page, not everyone agrees with many of the posts you make on some subjects, however you make some very valid comments on this subject and most of us here would agree with most of what you are saying.

I would however disagree with you calling "Green_Roads" a "leftie eco loon", why? Because in this case Green_Roads has stood in defence of a Fascist invasion of a British dependency, and also shows support for a government that is responsible for one of the largest rain forest deforestation programmes in the world (6 times more destruction than neighbouring Brazil), work it out for yourself where Green_Roads stands from that stand point!

Another point raised by Green_Roads is the war graves. Green_Roads suggests that they could be dug up and something useful planted there, what a crass and disrespectful and disgraceful comment! The Island's war graves include cemeteries for the war dead from both sides of this conflict, and the Falkland Islanders have declared that Families of dead Argentines can commemorate on the islands, http://tinyurl.com/6mwl2st

So where does this leave us? Like all war graves, both sides deserve the respect offered to those in the fields of Flanders, Ypres and other war graves around the world. Should we be using the land in the way Green_Roads suggests?

p_bear's sentiments are largely supported on this issue, and yes we do have a right to an opinion, but I do not see that right being used to deliberately offend those who have lost family members, friends and colleagues in this conflict.

Looking at the Falklands as they are today, a self determined Island Community where there is no crime, unemployment or poverty, there is justification in handing sovereignty over to a foreign power with an appalling human rights record and policies that go against preserving the rain forests and protecting the environment. http://tinyurl.com/7ywotwf”

“A snippet of relative triva that some may not know (and some may).

The American light cruiser USS Phoenix was based in Pearl Harbour in 1941 and survived the attack by the Japanese unscathed.

Can anyone (without the use of Google ;) ) explain why that point has relevance?”

“Typos!!! I started this final comment wit the question "is the any justification" then changed this to a statement which should have read "there is NO justification in handing sovereignty over to a foreign power with an appalling human rights record and policies that go against preserving the rain forests and protecting the environment". My stance has not changed and I firmly believe that the Falkland Islanders have the righ to self determination.

Incidentally, Britain will have no claim to the oil as this will be owned by Falkland Oil and Gas Limited (FOGL) an AIM-listed oil and gas exploration company operating in the South and East Falkland Basins, potentially a new petroleum province in the South Atlantic.
http://tinyurl.com/7987sf2”

“Too easy for anyone over 40 B_o_B - it became the Belgrano”

“Quite true onnhoj2010. Still an interesting point though. Or at least I think so. ;)”

“There will be a full report on the sinking of he General Belgrano (this is due after the 30 year secrecy ruling that has kept this out of the public domain).

A BBC Drama documentary referred to a report by Major David Thorp which states that in late April 1982, they intercepted a message sent from naval headquarters ordering the ARA Belgrano and its escorts to a grid reference within the exclusion zone and not back to base as the Argentines later claimed.

The drama showed how the Admiralty were watching the movements of the ship, known to be armed with sea Exocet missiles, was ordered into position for a typical tactical "Pincer" movement against the Ark Royal.

However, in recent years the Argentine navy has accepted that the sinking of the Belgrano was a legitimate act of war. http://tinyurl.com/8ayq4n4”

“Put quite simply, the comments by Gree_Roads are the most ignorant and scurrilous remarks I have ever witnessed on a forum.

To advocate the desecration of war grave is beyond contempt.”

“As regards the Belgrano, this is another topic which the anti_British left have made much of.

Quite frankly whether or not it was inside the exclusion zone is irrelevent. In fact it could have been floating in the Argentinian Presidents bath tub next to his rubber duck - it would still have been a legitimate target.

It amazes me that left wing labour politicians and their supporters have the nerve to claim it should not have been subnk, yet view unarmed British troop ships as perfectly legitimate targets for the Argentinians.


Belgrano carried exocet missiles. At that time they could have decimated the British fleet and therefore posed an immediate threat to British lives. What is it that these loony lefties fail to understand?”

“What is the point in having a debate if people are not going to read posts properly and only respond to something they have clearly misread.

However as Derby Born seems to be taking the time to read before providing a considered response I do need to point something out. The Sir Galahad was not hit by a French Exocet. It was hit by a Skyhawk jet firing an Mark 81 Bomb, both sold to Argentina by the US. If you remember, the US did support us in the war, but there was real embarrassment for them afterwards as it transpired the Israeli's were providing advice to the Argentinian Military.

It would be different if it all kicked off again though, the US would allow us to use their bases for refuelling etc, something they did not do in 1982. Thatcher went nuts at them afterwards and she gained a concession that if in future refuelling help was needed, they would provide it.

I cannot see it happening again though, in all seriousness I think this is just sabre rattling.”

“@Objectionist, Thanks for correcting me on the Sir Galahad. I have found the following information on the Naval History website http://tinyurl.com/7zodcfj (not Wikipedia).

This will hopefully clear up some of the other comments about what happened with the Sir Galahad:

"around 2.00 pm (7th June 1982), five Skyhawk's of Grupo 5 and five Daggers of Grupo 6 were coming in over the Falklands.

First to be attacked by the Daggers, but in Falkland Sound was frigate "Plymouth" on her way to bombard an Argentine position on West Falkland. Hit by cannon fire and four UXB's, one of which detonated a depth charge, she was only slightly damaged. Shortly after, the Skyhawks reached Fitzroy. Three of them put two or more bombs into the crowded "SIR GALAHAD", and the other two hit "Sir Tristram" with two UXB's killing two crewmen. The ships caught fire and were soon abandoned, but by then the results for "Sir Galahad" were catastrophic with a total of 48 killed - five RFA crewmen, 32 Welsh Guards and eleven other Army personnel, with many more badly burned and wounded. "Sir Tristram" was later returned to the UK for repairs, but the burnt-out "Sir Galahad" was scuttled at sea as a war grave on the 25th June".

I do agree that the Argentines are "sabre rattling" as any planed blockade of the Falklands ports would be unenforcible without taking military action against civilian merchant shipping.

If the Argentine navy sank a cruise ship or a cargo ship carrying supplies or produce, it would be an act of war that would result in world-wide condemnation and give full justification for the Royal Navy to sink the Argentine warships.”

“@Green_Roads, I know you are only trying to wind up P_bear but your evil, crass and vile comment "in a hundred years nobody will remember them or know they ever existed" is deeply offensive, and disrespectful.

Here is something to remind us that we should never forget:

"They went with songs to the battle, they were young,
Straight of limb, true of eye, steady and aglow.
They were staunch to the end against odds uncounted;
They fell with their faces to the foe.

They shall grow not old, as we that are left grow old:
Age shall not weary them, nor the years contemn.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning
We will remember them.

They mingle not with their laughing comrades again;
They sit no more at familiar tables of home;
They have no lot in our labour of the day-time;
They sleep beyond England's foam.

But where our desires are and our hopes profound,
Felt as a well-spring that is hidden from sight,
To the innermost heart of their own land they are known
As the stars are known to the Night;

As the stars that shall be bright when we are dust,
Moving in marches upon the heavenly plain;
As the stars that are starry in the time of our darkness,
To the end, to the end, they remain".”

“I see Green_Roads crass comment was removed by the time I had posted a response.
Thankfully our war memorials give the names of all who have died in wars, lest we forget!
As Ksdhindsa79 has already stated in an earlier comment about a local war herp who was killed on the Falkland Islands:

Homelands School

The interior of the school showing the plaque to Falklands War Hero, John Nowack, a pupil at the school between 1970 and 1975. Nowack was killed in action in the Falklands in 1982.
http://tinyurl.com/6rmcsjq”

“Derby_born - I think I'm right in saying that the youngest soldier to die in the Falklands was Sapper Wayne Tarbard, from Hilton, aged 19.”

“My point is proved lol. P_bear can't remember 30 years back nevermind the 100 years I mentioned earlier. Anyhow must get to bed as I'm attending a protest tomorrow dinner.”

“Green_Roads, "Anyhow must get to bed as I'm attending a protest tomorrow dinner", What a pathetic boast! What are you protesting about? Argentina's destruction of the rain forests or the elderly burning gas to keep warm?”

“Green_Roads, what are you going on about you obnoxious coward?
I do hope you are arrested at your "protest" along with all the other benefit scroungers.

As for your obnoxious 100 years comment. They WILL be remembered - wheras nobodies like you wont.”

“Derby Born...

An act such as the sinking of a commercial/civilian vessel would unfortunately not get worldwide condemnation in my opinion. Think of Cruise ships being attacked in the Pacific or Privateers in the Indian Ocean.... Problems that are far away are not our problems as the adage goes.... You probably share my shame in that....

As for Green Roads.... enjoy your 'protest tomorrow dinner"... which if I am as smart as I feel I am means you are going to attend a dinner which advocates waiting 24 hours before you mention something is wrong?

Wow. On the edge.....

Lets keep the debate and conversation going but ignore the obvious idiots.”

“Am I the only one who has noticed that Argentina is no longer controlled by a military junta? Talk of human rights abuses and people disappearing mysteriously belong to history.”

“WELL AT LAST WE HAVE THE TRUTH.

"As for being on benefits ! So what ? I haven't worked for many years and I don't intend to either, .....and there's nothing you or anyone else can do about it"
ACTUALLY THERE IS, AND I INTEND TO. THE SWEEPING POWERS TO INVESTIGATE BENEFIT FRAUDSTERS ALLOW SEIZURE OF ANY RELEVENT RECORDS. I'M SURE A REPUTABLE NEWSPAPER WOULD NOT WANT TO BE SEEN TO BE PROTECTING THIEVES - BECAUSE THAT IS WHAT BENEFIT FRAUD IS - THEFT FROM THE REST OF US.


If we want to show the world whose boss then tax cars and anyone earning over £30,000 per year to the hilt ! Most who are hideously white working/middle class living in 3 bedroom houses all to themselves."
WELL NOW, YOU CLAIM TO BE A MEMBER OF THE UAF, YET YOU POST A RACIST REMARK LIKE THAT? DON'T TELL ME, YOU'RE ONE OF THESE IDIOTS THAT THINKS RACISM ONLY APPLIED IN ONE DIRECTION.
TELL US, HOW ARE YOU GETTING TO YOUR "MEETING"? CAR, 'BUS? HYPOCRITE.


"I won't get arrested I never do, my comrades with the UAF rarely ever do".
THAT FIGURES, THE UAF ARE NO DIFFERENT TO THE EDL, JUST THE OTHER SIDE OF THE SAME COIN - BRAIN DEAD THUGS.


I HOPE NO ONE REPORTS YOUR LATEST POST AS IT SERVES MORE USE BEING THERE SO THAT EVERYONE CAN SEE WHAT A LOW LIFE YOU ARE.

HOWEVER, JUST IN CASE, I'VE COPIED IT - AND WILL BE DISTRIBUTING COPIES TO THE RELEVENT AUTHORITIES, AND POSSIBLY A COUPLE OF NATIONAL NEWSPAPERS, AS EVIDENCE OF THE KIND OF LOW LIFE BENEFIT SCROUNGERS WE HAVE IN THIS COUNTRY.

MAYBE ALL PROTESTORS SHOULD BE ROUNDED UP AND CHECKED - AFTER ALL THOSE ON BENEFITS ARE NOT AVAILABLE FOR WORK WHILST PROTESTING - SO SHOULD HAVE THEIR BENEFITS STOPPED.”

“Rob09 you need to do your homework.

The fate of 30'000 "disappeared" during the dirty war is still unknown and the Government, shielding itself behind two laws that pardoned all those responsible for the tortures and killings, has no plans to investigate what their fate was.

Journalists are harassed for writing articles offensive to the government, and sometimes even beaten up or killed.

Conditions in jails are inhuman, beatings at police stations commonplace, and disappearances at the hand of the police are not unheard of.

Prisoners often stay in jail for years before being tried for their alledged crimes.

There is at least one prisoner of conscience, Fray Antonio Puigjané, who has been sentenced to twenty years in prison for his beliefs.

The indiginous natives are not allowed to own any property or land.

THIS would no doubt be the fate of the Falklanders.”

“Objectionist, I would expect world wide condemnation if a cruise ship was sunk, just imagine an American ship ignoring a blockade by the Argentines and being sunk! I don't think the Royal Navy would need to do anything. As to pirate activity, yes there is shame in piracy, but I would hiope that the ability of commercial ships to carry armed guards and to be able to legally protect themselves, would go some way to stopping the activity, but in reality this one needs to be tackled at source. But how? It is down to their government's corruption and abuse of their people that has created this situation.

As to Argentina's government, it makes no difference that they are no longer a military junta, the fact is that the inhabitants of the Falklands, who have been living there for the past 180 years or so, want to remain British and govern the Islands themselves without interference from Argentina. At least they do have International support for their desire of self determination, with only the Argentines and a few tin pot dictatorships against them.

As the Treaty of Utrecht was brought up in previous comment, this applied to all of the Island states off the east coast of America, but I can't see Jamaica and Bermuda being willing to surrender their sovereignty to the Spanish.

P_bear, please stop rising to Green_Roads' bait - however what I find most amusing about this person is that he/she claims to support the Unite Against Fascism movement yet in an earlier post, supported the 1982 invasion of the Falklands by the Argentine Fascist Junta (they were a fascist power at that time). I have always had my doubts about the Union Flag burning UAF and the fact that they are always the ones to start a riot when they clash with their opposites in the EDL or BNP, they are just the opposite side to the same coin as far as I am concerned. This can be supported by the way Green_Roads keeps winding up anyone with their own views on any subject.”

“I see Gree_Roads latest diatribe has been removed. Luckily I managed to take a screen shot of it which is now in the hands of a benefits fraud investigator. Apparently they have the powers to obtain his/her details from the site administrators.

It seems that Green_Roads boast that - ""As for being on benefits ! So what ? I haven't worked for many years and I don't intend to either, .....and there's nothing you or anyone else can do about it" is about to come back to bite them.

I am sick of paying taxes to keep idlers like that.”

“P_bear__ - you are right that the current Argentine government is beginning to show some worrying signs of similarity to 30 years ago including, most recently, the seizing of newsprint stocks to prevent press criticism of the regime. But the amnesty laws were overturned seven years ago and since then, many former regime members have been brought to trial and sentenced.

However you are totally wrong to accuse Labour of opposing the Falklands war in 1982. Both the Labour Party and the trade unions backed the sending of the task force to take on a right-wing dictatorship. There was never a right/left divide (apart from the discredited berks in Militant). The socialist left argued all along that the right to self determination of the people of the Falklands in the face of a fascist oppressor should be enforced.

Through trade union links, the left had been highlighting the behaviour of the Argentine regime long before Thatcher got interested (which was pretty much only at the moment the Argentinian invading force rolled up). Until then the Tories had been quite happy to sell arms to Galtieri and continually refuse Falkland Islanders' pleas to develop the island's services, forcing them into closer trading links with Argentina.”

“by onnhoj2010
However you are totally wrong to accuse Labour of opposing the Falklands war in 1982"


Tan Dalyell ? His rants against thew war are well known.
Tony Benn ? etc.”

“Derby_born.....

My post above was reference to the 'blind eye' that governments turn to certain parts of the world. I know that in the case of the Falklands, an act of aggression would be responded to forcefully, but there are too many instances on this planet where genocides have taken place, or dictatorial regimes are governing, which leads to repression of minorities.

This is probably why my thinking on topics such as immigration are not everyone's cup of tea. I would gladly have had seen all the refugees from Sierra Leone in the 1990's come here, rather than die at the hands of Machete wielding thugs....

But back to Argentina, I actually loved my visit there. I went to a yacht club which if it were not for the dialect, could have been in the Isle of Wight rather than Buenos Aires. The 'Britishness' of the place was really odd... Striped blazers, bow ties and straw hats whilst sipping tea on the veranda,it was quite surreal.... ..... And as for the people I met, they were really warm and friendly. There was no hostility and certainly no mention of the Falklands.... I would love to go back again if Mrs Objectionist will let me..”

“There were dissenting voices within the party, as there often are, but the fact remains that Labour and the trade unions supported the deployment of the task force. Benn wanted more UN involvement before going to war but the Commons vote in favour was overwhelming from all sides.

Please don't try to make it sounds like the valiant Tories were defending the islanders in the face of Labour opposition.

Equally, it's wrong to imply that Britain has always fiercely held onto its sovereignty claims.

Both parties had been actively raising the possibility of handing over sovereignty, even in the years immediately before the war. Labour held talks with Argentina but pulled out just short of a deal, and Tory minister Nicholas Ridley tried to set up a formal 'lease back' deal in 1980/81, offering Argentina nominal sovereignty over the Falklands at that time, with a full handover later. No-one was talking about the rights of the islanders then.

If Argentina hadn't invaded, it's easy to see a situation where, by now, the Falklands would've been handed over. But at a time when she was behind in the opinion polls (to Michael Foot, as unthinkable as that might seem now) Thatcher saw an opportunity to assure election victory by conjuring up the spirit of the empire.”

“"by Green_Roads
"Back to the paramilitary forces that so called protect this country my grandfather was imprisoned along with Jack Straws father for doing the honourable thing and refusing to fight. Not in his name he said and the Falklands was not in my name nor was Iraq, Afghanistan and Iran in the next few months."

Proof I think that Green_Roads is nothing more than a swaggering neo-facist. (Jack Straw of course is still on his way to Oz seaching for a brain.)

Had my father and millions of others like him decided in 1939 that the 'honourable thing to do' was refuse to fight, then this country would now be a part of Nazi Germany. We wouldn't be multi-cultural then would we?
I think that UAF actually stands for: United As Facists, that's what they appear to be. What brain-dead disingenuous beings they are.

LankyLen”

“by Objectionist
........... but there are too many instances on this planet where genocides have taken place, or dictatorial regimes are governing, which leads to repression of minorities."


China being the worst example, but I don't think we will be taking them on anytime soon.
As for "dictatorial regimes leading to repression of minorities" - the European Government with its blue modern day swastika comes to mind.”

“Yet more examples of British paramilitaries.

http://tinyurl.com/6nm2e9w”

“Yet more examples of British paramilitaries.

http://tinyurl.com/6nm2e9w”

“Green Roads... A Daily Mail article? Yeah it must be true.....

This story is faked, just as the photo of the soldier supposedly looking on at an Apache attack is.”

“Ironically Green_Roads, that remark IS racist and incorrect.

Had the individual in question met the criteria you suggest, he would still be locked up now.”

“Now and again the Spanish try to claim Gibraltar.

If some of the people who have posted on here had their way the Germans would still occupy the Channel Islands.

BUT what annoys me & other Falkland Veterans is the use of the M word, when referring to the British Falkland Islands, only the enemy would call them the M word.”

“@Green_Roads, "yet more examples of British paramilitaries, you really are an idiot! The link was to and article was about a "Paratrooper" who is being charged with punching an Afghan prisoner.

Like I say this is a "PARATROOPER" (Member of HM Forces) nothing to do with the Paramilitary. Let me give an explanation that you might understand:

Paramilitary, a dictionary definition: "Of, relating to, or being a group of civilians organized in a military fashion, especially to operate in place of or assist regular army troops".
a. a paramilitary force
b. a member of such a force

I think it is about time you gave up trying to defend a fascist invasion of British territory, you are well out of your depth given that you don't even know the difference between a civilian (unofficial) force and the British armed forces.”

“@WillCroft3, I don't think that it is only people who have served in the forces that see the M word as offensive, no one I know refers to the Falklands by any other name than the "Falklands".
We may disagree on some issues, as we also do tend to agree on other issues, which always makes way for a good debate, I am 100% with you on all of your comments on this particular subject.”

“...but once again, just like 1982, we are left with no carrier-based airborne early warning, meaning that any fleet would again need to be protected by frigates on 'picket duty' - AKA sitting ducks.

Mr Cameron, who are you going to send to their deaths following your spineless failure to properly equip our nation's defence forces?”

“The only racist comments in this thread are those made by Green_Roads, which the abusing twerp objectionist seems to agree with, making him a racist too.”

“HMS Dauntless (Daring Class Destroyer) is to be deployed off the coast of the Falklands Islands in the South Atlantic, the Royal Navy has confirmed.
The Portsmouth-based ship will be the first of the navy's new Type 45 air defence destroyers to go to the area.
The Ministry of Defence said it was a routine deployment and HMS Dauntless would replace a frigate currently stationed there.
http://tinyurl.com/7wtu6kg

The Daring class are often considered the most powerful air-defence warships in the world. The ship's capabilities centre on the SAMPSON Multi Function Radar which can detect hundreds of targets out to a distance of 400 km (250 miles) and the Sea Viper missile system. In addition Daring's S1850M 3D air surveillance radar is capable of detecting 1,000 targets up to 400 km (250 miles). It is also capable of detecting outer atmosphere objects such as ballistic missiles.
Royal Navy Confirms Sea Viper Missile Firing

Royal Navy Confirms Sea Viper Missile Firing

Sea Viper, the Royal Navy's ground breaking new air defence missile, has been fired from a Type 45 Destroyer for the first time, the MOD confirmed today.

The Sea Viper can engage multiple targets simultaneously, meaning it is capable of defending the new Type 45 fleet and ships in their company against multiple attacks from the most sophisticated aircraft or missiles approaching from any direction and at supersonic speeds.

Read more: http://tinyurl.com/6wvg6f2”

“Argentina has a "Peronist" government, national presidential and legislative elections were held on 23 October 2011. Incumbent president Cristina Fernández de Kirchner secured a second term. The latest moves on the Falklands by the Argentine president are a rather cynical attempt to secure her position presidential position as part of her election promises.

Kirchner is also complaining about "the militarisation" of the Falklands, which have always had a military base. The latest posting of Royal Navy vessel HMS Dauntless is just routine as it replaces a retiring Royal Navy frigate. Given the ongoing threat from the imperialist aspirations of the Argentine government towards this well established British dependency, Britain cannot afford to withdraw its military presence.

Kirchner is also complaining about Prince William serving as a pilot in the Islands' air sea rescue service, demanding that he goes as a Prince rather than a pilot, which is utter nonsense.

As Flight Lieutenant Wales the Prince has commenced his duties as an RAF Search and Rescue (SAR) helicopter co-pilot in the Falkland Islands providing SAR cover for both the civilian and military population, something he could not do as a civilian and which has nothing to do with the military defence of the islands.

The Officer Commanding Search and Rescue, Squadron Leader Miles Barnett, said:

"A posting to operations in the Falklands is a vital part of the career progression for a Search and Rescue pilot. The experience they get here is second-to-none. It is a challenging and varied job providing an essential capability to the military and the Falkland Islands population."

http://tinyurl.com/7ppz7wq

As to Argentina's "Green" credentials "The Great Chaco and Yungas Rainforests of Argentina

The Yungas Rainforest and the Great Chaco American forest are two neighbouring ecosystems. They are rich in biodiversity and wildlife, such as rare jaguars. However, these forests are being destroyed at one of the fastest rates in the world. The deforestation rate of the Chaco forest of northern Argentina, is up to six times higher than the world average".

"Around four million people live in the Chaco forest, most of them indigenous people who depend on the forest for food and water. Losing the forest's resources affects not only local people's diet but their livelihoods as well".

(as reported by South America Greenpeace). http://tinyurl.com/7qjxpkb
Thus proving that the Argentine government is still abusing the indigenous population.”

“This is the kind of Argentinian lunacy we are having to deal with

http://tinyurl.com/7fpvs2x”

“The article in the Express is the same issue I was relating to with my previous comment, the Argentine president sees the British naval presence as "a security risk", after sending one of its most modern warships – HMS Dauntless – to the islands last month. So is she now trying to convince the Argentine people that Britain is planning an invasion of Argentina?

Of course this is just political tub thumping as the only risk here is to an invading force from Argentina. The Navy is there to protect the islands from invasion as part of a defensive garrison that has been on the islands since 1833.

As to Prince William's presence, this is nothing more than him fulfilling his role as an air sea rescue co pilot as part of his ongoing role in the British Forces. He is not there as a combatant, he is there serving as a member of a life saving rescue service, and could one day, become involved in rescuing an Argentine vessel in distress in the seas around the Falklands as part of that commitment.

The fact is that the Falklands are a British dependency, inhabited by generations of British people since 1833, with earlier occupation since the 1600s.

Just reading that article gives a clear impression of a rather childish and insecure president who is trying to prove that she is a warrior standing firm against a non existent threat to her country's security.
@littlemoaner this must surely depend on whether the bears were armed and prepared for an invasion, or they were just migrating to find a new source of food and living accommodation.”

“@ Green_ Roads
You are a Tory, who trying to make working class people, out to be laying in bed day and smoking pot. The truth is that people on benefits are struggling to keep warm & to feed their children, and don't need Little Tory snobs like you running them down, a lot of people in Derby are going to loose their jobs before we go in to 2013.
I know only to well what goes on in your little club in Spondon, and the Ten Bob snobs who frequent it.

My memory goes back to the 1950s when you're little club was on the other side of the road & Spondon was then still in the county. Your members & their families had the pick of all the Apprenticeships and good jobs around .

Can I please Apologise to Derby_born, as this has nothing to do with the Falklands but HE had to be told.”

“This was quite an interesting discussion at one point. Ah well.”

“I think we should get back on topic.”

“by Green_Roads
"I think we should get back on topic."

I / we think you should foxtrot oscar!”

“+1 to that Dave *thumbs up*”

“+1 more. I hope soon to be reading the headline 'Benefit scrounger caught after boasts on newspaper website', followed by a long silence from Green_Roads...”

“I am utterly convinced that Green_roads is a caricature account set up by another regular poster in an attempt to reinforce their own stereotypes about 'lefties'

But funnily enough, every time I post this view, it gets reported and deleted.”

“This is all rather strange! When I started this discussion, it was about about the Falkland Islands and Argentina's claim to their sovereignty, but it now seems to have been hijacked as a discussion about ONE of the posters "Green_Roads" who has hijacked several other debates and made them all about himself, with others following suit.

Green_Roads has made no valid contribution to any discussion and we do ourselves no favours by commenting on whoever this is.

I think most of the issues around the subject of the Falklands has now been discussed at some length, notably with many of the pointless self promoting comments by the aforementioned being removed.

I would therefore say that this subject is closed, and I would suggest Green_Roads should start his own debate about himself and deal with the comments from there.”

“P_Bear and all.... I do not wish to get into any debates, but P_Bear, yes I belive my brother, Sapper Wayne David Tarbard was probably the youngest to be kolled, but he died doing his job and 30 years on, we have never forgotten”

“Does anyone not think that the whole thing is being manufactured by both the Argentines and the UK to distract people from whats happening in the respective countries?

I think both governments are being irresponsible by ratching up the tension, but it seems politically convenient for them to do so.

Oh and the discovery of oil probably has helped things on a good deal.”

“@Daz, if you have read any of the earlier posts and looked at the links to the various news stories and Falkland Island related web sites you would have learned that Falklands Garrison is still very much a going concern, providing protection and reassurance for the Islands since the 1982 invasion. The deployment of HMS Dauntless is a routine deployment to replace an ageing and outdated HMS Montrose as part of the Islands' defence against further invasion threats.

All of the sabre rattling and threats are coming from Argentina, but this is more likely to be down to the cuts in the British Armed Forces and they now see an opportunity to make the first move in removing the rights of the Islanders to self determination.

The Argentines are accusing Britain of "colonialism", but this is not the case as the Islands are looking for self determination as an independent state under British dependency but not British rule.

The Islands have their own government which is not based on Party Politics as they have no political parties and the elected members are elected on their own merits and abilities (could we ever see that happening here?). It is Argentina which has colonial aspirations as they want to colonise the Islands, which are inhabited by people who identify as British but have lived on these islands for many generations.

"Ministers attending the Seventh Ministerial United Kingdom-Caribbean Forum have agreed an Action Plan, which recognises the right of self determination for the Falkland Islanders."
http://tinyurl.com/8xamlye

Part of Argentina's complaint is about Prince William wearing a uniform on the Islands, however this is the uniform of a Search and Rescue pilot, and the Prince is not representing the Monarchy as he is a serving air sea rescue Officer as Flight Lieutenant Wales.


The oil may be a bone of contention, however Britain has no claim to any oil in the region as this has already been claimed by Falkland Oil and Gas Limited (FOGL) which is an AIM-listed oil and gas exploration company operating in the South and East Falkland Basins, potentially a new petroleum province in the South Atlantic. http://tinyurl.com/7987sf2

The Islands have a prosperous future as a self governed British dependency, they have virtually no crime, no unemployment and no housing shortage. The Islands main produce is wool, more recently, tourism.
The discovery of oil will undoubtedly make the very wealthy, and they say that a top priority will be to pay for the cost of protecting the islands from future invasion threats.”

“Phew, took me a while but I've have now read all of the posts on this thread to date. Anyways, I've a few posers for peeps.

Does anyone think that it's a bit cynical for the elite politicians in the Falkland Islands to now clamour for a self-governing body now that it's likely that there are untold oil and gas resources there? I mean, the UK has spent a lot of money defending them since the war and a lot of lives were lost in 1982 and it now appears according to Derby Born that the islands are to become some-kind-of emirate. What do others think?

The Exocet issue is quite interesting. As I understand it, the Argentines did not have unlimited numbers of these missiles and in actual fact they ran out of them, which is just as well for the Task Force. There was a British secret service sting to string them along with promises of black-market Exocets that never materialised. Well done MI6!

As for the food or warmth issue mentioned earlier in this thread, did people know that a single pensioner on the lowest weekly means-tested income receives only a few pounds less each week than a single parent with one baby who has fled an abusive partner yet has to feed and clothe two people?”

“@Neo_MadBadger wrote "it now appears according to Derby Born that the islands are to become some-kind-of emirate". Sorry but this is not the case, and I certainly did not suggest that this is the case. No major discovery had been made in the region before Rockhopper's "Sea Lion" discovery 100km to the north of the islands in mid-2010. The Islands have been asking for self determination since 1982, long before the discovery of oil.

For starters, the oil will be "owned" by Falkland Oil and Gas Limited, which is floated on the stock market, just as North Sea Oil is owned by several large oil companies. The tax revenues are taken by the associated governments of the UK and in the case of the Falklands, to support the national economy.
"AN AMERICAN energy giant with links to the Pentagon is poised to spend at least £1billion on the British oil rush in the FALKLANDS". http://tinyurl.com/7fc8rfw
Falkland Oil & Gas raises £48.5m to drill deeper
http://tinyurl.com/6v9zu3b

Argentina has renewed its claim for the islands following the discovery of oil, it is they who want the oil.
Why else would they want to take over a group of islands, with barely a tree in sight and nothing but rough grassland and rocks, which is ideal for the islands' main produce, wool?

The Falkland Islands do not have a party political system, the members are elected by the inhabitants and then a "legislative assembly" which is elected from within the elected members.
Then we have the environmental issues, which the Argentine government have little respect for. The Falklands Conservation is a non-governmental organisation working to protect all the wildlife in the Falkland Islands for future generations. http://tinyurl.com/76zxkdc


As to the Exocet missile supply, there were plenty of missiles available, however thanks to our SAS destroying many of these at an Argentine air base with the help of the French assisting MI6. You are correct about the "black market" promise of missiles to the Argentines, this followed the French refusal to sell the missiles. The Argentines actually paid up front for the non-existent missiles - indeed, well done to MI6.
With a booming tourist trade, oil revenues and an efficient farming system, the Falklands are set to become a highly successful British island state.”

“Derby Born. I am sure that earlier in this thread you or someone else stated that the Falklands did not have political parties.

It will come out under the 30 year rule hopefully, but did you know that the only reason that the French refused to sell the Argentines the Exocets before the sting was because Mrs Thatcher threatened to pull the UK out of the then EEC? And she meant it but subsequently backed off and then put the Eurosceptics under the handbag under the guise of means to an end.”

“@Neo_Madbadger, here is another take on why the French gave our Navy the Exocet "disarm" codes an extract from: Falklands: "The Sphinx and the curious case of the Iron Lady's H-bomb" (memoirs of Mitterrand's psychoanalyst) 2005 Nov 20Commentary (Sunday Times)
(François Mitterrand was nicknamed "le Sphinx" by the French).

"It is May 7, 1982, shortly after 3.30pm. Ali Magoudi, a Parisian psychoanalyst, paces back and forth awaiting the secret arrival of his next patient — whose identity, if revealed, would set off an earthquake in French politics.

"The figure who enters, 45 minutes late, is François Mitterrand, no less — the president of France. Magoudi discovers that his patient does not want to talk about his childhood or his dreams, but about Margaret Thatcher and the crisis over the Argentine invasion of the Falkland Islands.

"Excuse me," Mitterrand begins, apologising for his late arrival. "I had a difference of opinion to settle with the Iron Lady. What an impossible woman, that Thatcher! "With her four nuclear submarines on mission in the southern Atlantic, she threatens to launch the atomic weapon against Argentina — unless I supply her with the secret codes that render deaf and blind the missiles we have sold to the Argentinians. Margaret has given me very precise instructions on the telephone."
The scene is the most striking in Magoudi's book, Rendez-vous: The psychoanalysis of François Mitterrand, which is to be published in France on Friday. An account of their meetings, which spanned 11 years from 1982 to 1993, it is by far the most revealing of a flurry of books preceding the 10th anniversary of Mitterrand's death on January 8, 1996".
Read more here:
http://tinyurl.com/8xkdsdq”

“First allow me to apologise for my earlier outburst this topic started me remembering the mats who never came home and when we wrote our last letters our last wills and testaments on the way there to be left on Accession Island, and forwarded should we not return.

When Green Roads went on about how to fiddle the benefits system, it was just too much.

Argentina is just like a school yard bully if you show her you are not afraid she will pick on someone else like Chile.
I can remember going to the Memorial service in Stanley Cathedral (it's just little bit bigger than Spondon church) I can remember one hymn Eternal Farther strong to save.

The Islands are on the same line of latitude as France is in the north, but much colder Because we have the Gulf Stream.
There are very few trees on the islands and most timber has to be imported, It is easy for us northerners when in the Southern Hemisphere to confuse the North for the South and when you do the Sun seems to be moving the wrong way in the sky.”